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Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:38 pm
by mjb007
Well, perhaps death is too strong of a word, but the regular sure is sick.

Just got back from a hike IN THE WOODs, grabbing 8 caches. 5 were micro, 3 were small.

I can mostly understand micros in urban situations, but other than especially devious folks who shall remain nameless <cough> _JohnnyCache </cough> :smt064 I don't understand them in the woods.

:(

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:11 pm
by zorrobarnes
I hear you . . . this ones for you ->Blue Jalopy Redux GC6HNG5 :P

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:31 pm
by cleandrysurface
Ah yes, the regular, AKA muggle-bait. That once bright treasure chest of triumph and joy for children, now a perpetually gritty, damp haven for rusty bottle caps, dead lighters, old ticket stubs, cheap business cards and miscellaneous plastic bits, all entombed in a delicate mildew aroma. I remember ye well.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:42 am
by OhMelli
I hear ya! Harder and harder to find a place to put a traveling Duck!!! (or any other TB you may happen to pick up!) CSwann and I had a particularly REWARDING stroll through Patriot Park, just south of Fredericksburg, the other day... did all but one of the trail hides and they were all either ammo cans or lock-n-locks! It was like a little piece of heaven! :lol:

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:06 pm
by Zepp914
I feel ya. Whenever we are traveling far from home, I pocket query the regulars and large caches and ignore the rest. We may grab a micro if we pull into a gas station or rest stop that happens to have one.

I recently extended my premium membership. I then started looking at premium caches. In my area there are 5 premium micros for every premium regular. There are only 2 non-premium micros for every non-premium regular. It makes me wonder why bison tubes are so highly valued.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:42 am
by zekester
It is particularly distressing to those of us who own lots of TBs that there are fewer and fewer places for them to be dropped. Leads to them just being discovered in events, which really does nothing for them In terms of mileage gained.

I know your thinking, well Zeke, you made trackables out of a harpoon and a bowling pin! True, but we also have over 400 trackable;sea that would fit inside your fist,

Perhaps we could come up with a way to incentivize the hiding of regular and larger containers.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:27 pm
by lpaulriddle
I think a lot of it has to do with the increased regulation of the hobby. With most of the county and state parks now requiring permission, not as many people are bothering to hide traditional caches in the woods (the exception being the areas around the reservoirs). I think I can count on one hand the number of new caches that have been hidden in Patapsco Valley State Park in the last 3 years. Regulation in the parks is resulting in more caches been hidden in urban and suburban areas, which tend to favor micros. It's just the path of least resistance.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:47 pm
by robert
lpaulriddle wrote:I think a lot of it has to do with the increased regulation of the hobby. With most of the county and state parks now requiring permission, not as many people are bothering to hide traditional caches in the woods (the exception being the areas around the reservoirs). I think I can count on one hand the number of new caches that have been hidden in Patapsco Valley State Park in the last 3 years. Regulation in the parks is resulting in more caches been hidden in urban and suburban areas, which tend to favor micros. It's just the path of least resistance.
The MGS started in 2002 because of a ban of all geocaches in state parks. Permissions have been required since then. Technically permission is required for all caches according to the listing guidelines, but when I was a reviewer we only needed to "enforce" it in places where explicit permission is required (i.e. the state parks like you mentioned). Some county parks, private property (parking lot micros), it would be assumed you already have permission so it wasn't asked about before listing the cache.

Your "path of least resistance" would be spot on, I think. Even when I was active, there seemed to be a trend to the easier to access caches to boost numbers, which would lead to the decline. The path of least resistance involved driving from parking lot to parking lot.

Anyway, just a bit of background from a long time member :wink:

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:08 am
by _JohnnyCache
lpaulriddle wrote:I think a lot of it has to do with the increased regulation of the hobby. With most of the county and state parks now requiring permission, not as many people are bothering to hide traditional caches in the woods (the exception being the areas around the reservoirs). I think I can count on one hand the number of new caches that have been hidden in Patapsco Valley State Park in the last 3 years. Regulation in the parks is resulting in more caches been hidden in urban and suburban areas, which tend to favor micros. It's just the path of least resistance.
No doubt permission in parks reduces the number of placements there as many don't want to bother with the paperwork but most parks are geocache friendly nowadays so permission is easy to attain. I think another issue limiting regulars is the suspicious disappearance of the containers. Many put out expensive ammo boxes with lots of swag, even having them hand painted to only have them disappear, then it's replaced with an inexpensive micro.

Personally I liked hiding micros just to reduce maintenance, if you can't find them you can't fill up the log :lol:

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:40 pm
by robert
_JohnnyCache wrote:Personally I liked hiding micros just to reduce maintenance, if you can't find them you can't fill up the log :lol:
It doesn't cause more visits to make sure a squirrel didn't run away with it and sock it away in a tree somewhere? :smt005

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:35 am
by Sue-Cat
Certain CO's just seem to always hide micros, in the woods or not... makes me start wishing someone would give them a stack of regular sized containers as a gift. :-D

I can however see at least a couple of advantages for hiding micros from the CO's point of view: containers are a lot cheaper, and they are easier to carry on hikes.

I favor seeking regulars (or smalls) over micros... if enough cachers avoided micros, CO's might get the message, but can't see that ever happening. Of course, container size isn't the only criteria I use, or even the most important one, when selecting caching targets. My container size find stats: 1644 micro, 1627 regular, 1129 small. I had my regular count higher than micros a few years back but you know... some shiny micros popped up that I wanted to find. :-)

Generally there seems to be an increasing greater emphasis on QUANTITY of finds and hides, rather than QUALITY. More cachers seeking only, or mostly, quality hides may encourage more quality hides.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:54 am
by Sue-Cat
zekester wrote:It is particularly distressing to those of us who own lots of TBs that there are fewer and fewer places for them to be dropped. Leads to them just being discovered in events, which really does nothing for them In terms of mileage gained.

I know your thinking, well Zeke, you made trackables out of a harpoon and a bowling pin!
:lol:
zekester wrote:True, but we also have over 400 trackable;sea that would fit inside your fist,

Perhaps we could come up with a way to incentivize the hiding of regular and larger containers.
1) There is this challenge: https://coord.info/GC2Y2F4 but such requirements are no longer allowed, drats.
2) Target caches you really like and want to see more of and skip the others, even if you're walking right by them. (I've done that many times.)
3) ... ??? ...

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:20 am
by Georick402
I try not to get involved in things like this, but of all of the cachers talking about just micro's in the woods, how many of them are doing something about it? I have over 900 hides, over 850 are ACTIVE, and yes.....most of them are micros. Then again, most of them are in urban areas. As for in the woods, I have plenty of ammo cans hidden, plenty of large loc-n-loc's hidden, plenty of regular and small loc-n-loc's which are still big enough to hold a TB.

The only trail I have in the woods which is all MICRO's, is the yellow trail on Sugarloaf Mountain. But there are plenty more large ones up on that mountain. It just requires a little bit of a hike. I try to make my hides challenging for some, and easy for others. I myself would rather find a ammo can 3 miles out on the Appalachian Trail then a micro is a nearby park, but the way I look at it, a cache is a cache.

I've heard complaints about me hogging all of the parks in Montgomery County. Why isn't anyone else filling them in? And if they decide to do it, why can't they hide ammo cans? It's not easy hauling 6 ammo cans up onto Sugarloaf Mountain at once, which I have done. And it's not a good feeling when they get stolen. I recently had one chained to a tree which was stolen, chain and all. And with over 900 hides, it does get expensive, but I still hide a mixture of sizes. I'm sure I have plenty of regular and large caches which a lot of cachers haven't found. I even have 5 gallon buckets out there. I was with a cacher on one of my trails yesterday which has 2 regular size containers with nothing in it but the logbook which only has about 10 finds.

They're out there. You just need to look, and instead of talking about just micros being hidden, go out and hide a ammo can yourself. I have 6 more in my garage just waiting to go out. If you're not into hiding and are willing to donate some, I'll haul them out into the woods. Ammo cans are my favorite. And there are still plenty of them out there that I haven't found. An ammo can in a local park is no fun to me. Now one sitting up on the Appalachian Trail, three miles away from parking is fun.

And of course I have a TB Hotel in my front yard which has plenty of room for any and all TB's.
So to make everyone happy......I'll hide a ammo can today.

Keep searching, have fun, and BE SAFE!!!!

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:38 am
by Sue-Cat
FYI... Rick, I was not actually thinking of your hides with my "always hides micros" comment, although yes, even though I do carry pens of course, I would choose pens in cache containers over more caches (as well as larger over smaller)! There's just so many... from my perspective these days of low # finds and not caring about numbers. I realize others feel differently and one of the reasons I like geocaching is you can choose how you play the game (within the reasonable Groundspeak guidelines of course).

I got curious on what size containers we've hidden, a mere 60 hides total including our archived hides: 35 regular, 11 small, 11 micro and 3 other. Almost all of our regulars are lock n locks. Ammo cans are fantastic, but relatively expensive when lock n locks can do the job.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:37 pm
by Georick402
I made a promise and stuck to it. An ammo can was hidden today, along with 6 other caches BIG enough to hold TB's. I have to be honest here, as I did hide ONE, and only ONE micro, as it was in a flood zone, and I found a perfect sized hole in a tree, 6 feet off the ground, that would hold a mico. If it could have held an ammo can, I would have left it there.

My goal for the next week, is to hide NOTHING smaller than my fist. All hides will be large enough to hold your average TB's. I'll hide them, but who's going to find them? They won't be your typical P&G's, but they won't be a 3,4 or 5 terrain rating neither.

Next week we'll hear complaints about too many caches being hidden out in the woods and not enough P&G's to help the ones who are working on a daily streak. :D

Can't please everyone, but large or small, easy or hard, a find is a find and we all get a smiley face.

I know all of this micro talk wasn't directed directly towards me, but the ones who want large caches out there, can hide them as easy as anyone else can.

And for pens in caches......when I first started, I hid pens in every cache which could hold one. You wouldn't believe the amount a MAINTENANCE logs I get saying "the pen doesn't work". Pen or no pen, we should all have one on us at all times anyhow. In the winter time, half of those pens in caches may not work anyhow. Another subject on pens, should they be in the ziploc bag with the logbook? I leave my pens out of the ziploc bags as they will puncture the bag. When I got out to perform maintenance on my caches that have pens, they're back inside the ziploc bag, and there's a hole in the bag from the pen.

Then again, if you get the FTF magazine, look at the latest issue, page 8. SKIP THE BAGGIE
That's another subject for another day.

Keep searching (large or small), have fun (if their nano's or ammo cans) AND BE SAFE (if it's either a guardrail find or a cliff find).

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:42 pm
by Sue-Cat
Georick402 wrote:...

And for pens in caches......when I first started, I hid pens in every cache which could hold one. You wouldn't believe the amount a MAINTENANCE logs I get saying "the pen doesn't work". ....
8O :doh: :brick: :defiant:

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:55 am
by zekester
Our plan yesterday was foiled by the weather, we were going to go do a site survey, and perhaps place some hides in Baltimore harbor. Instead, we went after a a cluster of hides all hidden by the same CO, followed by an earth cache in Patapsco State Park. The first set were all urban micros, were al creative, thematic, with good write ups and a variety of entertaining containers, and we enjoyed them. That being said, the earth cache experience was the true gem of the day (no pun un intended), and that experience was far more pleasurable for us.

As Sue said, the breadth of the hobby allows for different folks to find different ways to enjoy it, and that is a great thing. I think we tend to hide the sort of caches we like to go after, but I also think that time is a huge factor. Creating a fun and enriching caching experience is one of the best ways to give back to the hobby, but it take a lot of time to get it right. I would argue that larger containers may take a little longer, as they are harder to conceal. The three mile hoe along the Appalchian trail sort of hide that GeoRick mentioned is exactly the sort of hide I like to go after or to place, but placing that takes twice to four times as much time, as I do a site survey, and re-visit to get good averaged coordinates. I think there is a tendency amongst all of us to hide what is easier as well, as we have to parse our time.

We moved back to Maryland ten years ago next week, and ended up settling quite close to Liberty Reservoir, which up to that point had very few caches. We had high hopes of hiding any number of caches there, but in fact have hidden only a few. We simply struggle to find the time to get out there and place more. Well, that, and the puzzle cachers have come in and buried the place in puzzles, and we have no idea where those are, but that's a topic for another thread.

I think maintenance is another part of this discussion that also relates to time. We struggle to maintain the 43 hides we have, much less research and place more. I have a document with three pages of cache ideas, probably another 50 caches to get out there if I could ever get to it. But I have to cut the lawn, go to work, take a shower, grocery shop....well you know the drill.

I suspect that time is one of the biggest factors that affects quality cache placement, and has an impact on micro vs. regular sizes. You can place a micro more quickly and in more places than a regular.

I would also like ton ore that I really enjoy the fact that we have these threads and that we can have open discussion about topics such as these.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:10 pm
by mjb007
Georick402 wrote:I made a promise and stuck to it. An ammo can was hidden today, along with 6 other caches BIG enough to hold TB's. I have to be honest here, as I did hide ONE, and only ONE micro, as it was in a flood zone, and I found a perfect sized hole in a tree, 6 feet off the ground, that would hold a mico. If it could have held an ammo can, I would have left it there.

My goal for the next week, is to hide NOTHING smaller than my fist. All hides will be large enough to hold your average TB's. I'll hide them, but who's going to find them? They won't be your typical P&G's, but they won't be a 3,4 or 5 terrain rating neither.
Since I started this tread I feel it is my duty to acknowledge and comment.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I haven't been caching near as much as I use to, but I definitely appreciate your effort!

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:27 pm
by lpaulriddle
Georick402 wrote:I made a promise and stuck to it. An ammo can was hidden today, along with 6 other caches BIG enough to hold TB's. I have to be honest here, as I did hide ONE, and only ONE micro, as it was in a flood zone, and I found a perfect sized hole in a tree, 6 feet off the ground, that would hold a mico. If it could have held an ammo can, I would have left it there.
Sorry for going off-topic, but I had to share this. I have a cache that I adopted that is right along the Patapsco River, just downstream of Ellicott City. Container is 6' off the ground in a tree. The park finally reopened last week, so I went to check on it and found the hiding place packed full of sand and silt. It had been underwater during the flood!! Amazingly, the cache (a soda preform) was still there, and still dry inside. Really drove home the magnitude of that flood. Had I been standing at GZ on 7/30, the water would have been over my head! Unbelievable. I still have to check on my other adoptive hide that is right off EC Main St, but on higher ground. Of course, that one is a puzzle cache that no one ever finds.

Re: Lamenting the death of the regular

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:50 am
by zekester
Georick402 wrote:I have over 900 hides, over 850 are ACTIVE,
Rick how do you possibly manage to maintain this number of hides??? We currently have 43, and these are (with only a couple of exceptions) pretty much limited to just Carroll County. We try to dedicate a weekend each fall, and each spring to maintenance, but even with that we don't usually make it out to all of them. If you've been cloning yourself, we need to know how!